CoolDMZ wouldn’t be earning CoolDMZ’s pay if CoolDMZ wasn’t a contrarian on the Corti Brothers situation. I’m having trouble mustering a lot of sympathy for the Cortis after reading the Bee’s follow-up story today. I suppose I liked Corti Bros as much as the next guy, though my patronage of things that can be described as “upscale” is seldom to never. (Unless Nordstrom Rack counts as upscale?)
I’m not shocked that Heather Fargo called Darrell Corti and offered the city’s help in finding a new location. Would that help entail explaining how a month to month lease works? All I keep reading is that Corti fans will go wherever he decides to move, even if it is out of town. I hope there are some patrons who are be pissed that a 60 year old company allowed themselves to operate on a wing and a prayer for 20 years despite knowing how loyal their fans were. What if you live down the street, have been shopping there since 1970, and can’t drive?
Apparently Corti was paying 60 cents on the dollar for rent. If customers are paying $1.20 on the dollar for their products, according to figures I just made up, where is all the money going? Certainly not into real estate advisers…
Sure, it would suck if Corti closes down because they can’t find rent at the rate they were paying. But I can’t help feeling that some of the same people who would blame the eeevil management company or the eeevil Raley’s folks for this, wouldn’t offer the same sympathy to families who are losing their homes–for which they signed 30 year mortgages–because they failed to predict how they’d handle their adjustable rate mortgage. Just because folks who took a risk to buy their first house don’t offer a kickass wine section or a bonkers deli counter?
Let’s just hope other local institutions can learn from this situation. We all know real estate is crazy times USA right now, so for gosh sakes lock something down if you’re coasting by on month to month.
The Sac Rag 
That’s quite a jump to conclude that those that sympathize with Darrell Corti would not show that same sympathy to those who are losing their houses. I don’t know anyone who is losing their house, but if I did I would feel quite bad for them and help them in any way I could. I feel general sympathy for the people stuck in bad housing situations. I know the people who work at Corti Brothers personally and it’s one of my very favorite local businesses.
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I didn’t conclude it, I felt it. 🙂
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When I saw all the outrage on the blogs yesterday, I mocked it on the brambles by comparing the aggrieved foodies to the sans-culottes. Then I drove past the store, as I do several times a week for work, and something struck me. The googie signage is probably going to disappear, and that makes me sad. Even in the unlikely event that the signage is moved to the new location, assuming there is a new location, it won’t be the same. Cordi Brothers’ status as a landmark is what is being destroyed, and that’s probably what is fueling the outrage. (I know, duh! but I’m slow on the uptake sometimes).
Anyway, I’m sorry for mocking all you pissed off foodies.
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heckasac: doesn’t your point about sympathizing with people who work there kind of make my case for me? if Corti’s has to close and those people lose the jobs they love, won’t it be because their management was irresponsible in safeguarding the business? i understand that you think there is some sort of backdoor deal going on. but the fact is they had a 60 year old family business existing at their landlord’s whim for 20 years.
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I don’t see why opting not to renew a monthly lease in favor of renting to a more lucrative business venture is so scandalous. It’s pretty humorous to suggest the landlord, the city, or other property owners should somehow offer a better-than-market rate based on the sentimental value of this market, or even the (albeit awesome) meatball sub they make there. Folks are responding like this is a halfway house or some super sympathetic cause. Although a halfway house that sells wonderful deli meats could really have something. My favorite quote from the article: “Fargo said Corti told her that he was hopeful he could relocate to a similar-size site and that he would welcome the city’s help.” Wouldn’t we all? I’d be interested to know whether CB was offered the option of staying in its current site and paying the market-value rent being charged to the new tenant.
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Why do you feel that people who care a lot about food and wine, beer, spirits, whatever don’t care about people too? Are those things at odds?
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I’d also like to go on the record as caring about cats and dogs, in case that is called into question.
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Oh! I sense a “tax break package” to support all them high flying spirits buyers…
The month to month rental issue is a non-issue. Plenty of businesses (esp in the older East Sac area) operate this way. Not a good business decision if you want stability. But if they were paying $.6 on the $1 for the last 20 years, a good decision moneywise, short term! But irrelevant in the end. And, as much as I looked for an angle, I can’t begrudge Ralleys (aka Good Eats?) the move on this basis either.
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I don’t really care that much about fancy and expensive foods. In fact, I’m kind of a cheapskate, and I had pork rinds for lunch.
The bottom line is that sometimes decisions that make you a good businessman don’t make you a good person. Very often, making decisions that make one a good businessman, like kicking out a long-residing local business for a higher-paying tenant, will encourage people to say you aren’t a good person.
If you have a problem with people saying you aren’t a good person for making good business decision, maybe a career as a businessman isn’t for you.
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heckasac: it’s not about that at all. i feel that some of the same people who feel Corti’s is getting screwed, would also feel that people who lose their houses are idiots. like i said.
question for you, then: if i like shopping at “Wal-Mart or Save Right or wherever offers the cheapest goods for the buck,” do i need to go on record as “understanding passion, and local roots, and high standards, and heart supplanting the bottom line”? are those things at odds? and that, kids, is when beckler stopped reading the Sac Rag.
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If it was just about the money (and sure, it’s business, that’s the way it goes), how come Corti was never even offered the same deal as Teel? All Corti got was the message that he had to vacate. That’s a big part of what smells funny about this whole thing.
Oh, I still don’t understand the , “i feel that some of the same people who feel Corti’s is getting screwed, would also feel that people who lose their houses are idiots” comment. Sure, maybe it’s some of the same people, I guess, possibly, but what the heck is the connection? There seems to be an assumption of the priorities of those upset about the Corti’s situation, but I still see no basis/explanation for that assumption. Or is it just the relevancy fallacy, that no one should ever get upset about anything except whatever is absolutely the most important thing in the universe? Like those who criticize people who protest animal cruelty because of an assumption that they don’t care about child cruelty?
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What kids? Aren’t we just talking to each other here? You don’t have to be sarcastic. Why would that comment cause me to stop reading? I didn’t invent the whole ethos of shopping at locally owned places. I do espouse it, but I can’t really defend it to you if you aren’t into it. I’m sure you’ve heard enough about it to make an informed decision. I was responding to an anonymous ass-y comment on my blog, not calling you out.
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Oh, hey, btw, Raleys has nothing to do with any of this, except that Teel is a member of the family that owns Raley’s, and, years ago, he used to work for them. And maybe that’s where he got all the money he’s using to force out what would otherwise be the biggest competitor to his new business venture.
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dirk: Was Corti Brothers never offered the sweet sweet deal of doubling their rent? Dude they would have been all over that.
Look, I never claimed this was an argument. It is absolutely an assumption, and it is based on… my brain, I suppose. i constructed a person out of straw to take issue with.
hecka: but you are calling me out on something i didn’t say, which is that my straw man doesn’t care about people. My straw man just picks the wrong side in both issues (well, more or less with the mortgage thing). Stupid straw man, what is your brain made out of straw or something? So I was calling you out on setting up your own false dichotomy.
For the record I’m sure you care about people. You didn’t answer my first question though, don’t you think that the people you know at Corti’s, if they lose their jobs should be seriously irked at their employer?
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No, because I’ve heard some other things, which I don’t want to post on the internet because I’m not 100% sure they are fact (which doesn’t usually stop me), that make me think that there is more to this.
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It would have to be pretty shady to counteract the 100% factual fact that Corti’s was one second away from losing their location every single day for the last 20 years. Basically the Guild of Calamitous Intent would have to be involved.
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Cool: I don’t think you made a strawman argument. You made analogy that doesn’t quite fit. You are saying that foodies like heckasac, et al are engaging in special pleading on behalf of Cordi Bros. If the business in question had been an Applebees, and a bad business decision had caused the restaurant to be replaced by an Outback, nobody would call foul. That’s just business.
This is all true as far as it goes, but it doesn’t take in account the point I made above. The foodies are invested in an aspect of the store that lies outside the imperatives of commerce. For me, it’s the landmark signage. For you, it may be none of the above, but I’m sure you have similar emotional investments elsewhere. If Sacramento was totally dominated by chain stores that came and went solely on the basis of dislocated, globalized market forces, you’d probably want to move some place else where you could establish connections to your community…unless you are secretly a robot…but don’t get me started on that trip.
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brambles: I like your point about Applebees, but I don’t even really care about that side of it. I was only talking to/about heckasac after she entered the conversation. My post was about what was going on with Corti’s and the assumption that I should feel bad about the raw deal this guy was getting, and then as an aside I invented a straw man who feels developers are screwing Corti but don’t shed a tear for Joe and Sally and their ARM. (Quick word count: How many did I use on the post and how many on recapping the post in the comments?)
Hmm, I guess did mention that I like to shop at chain stores or wherever the price is right. But I was mostly interested there in pointing out that those who live in false dichotomies should not throw stones.
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Wow quite the discussion.
From what I know about the land owner and that site, Corti has been trying over the past 20 years (off and on) to get a long term lease. The site obviously needs work. I think the roof was needing repair a few years back that caused some tension between the owner and Corti. Corti wanted to invest in the site, but without a long term lease it didn’t make sense to do so because of exactly this situation. I know others who have tried to deal with the land owner and there is never a good word that is said about how she does business. I think the big mistake was not jumping on other sites when they became available like Little Al’s in East Sac.
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I don’t believe it’s a straw man argument, but some kind of logical fallacy is at work here, TZ. If I didn’t take Critical Thinking as a pass/fail course, I could probably remember exactly which one. How can you argue that local foodies upset at the Corti’s closing are indifferent to the plight of mortgage foreclosures, when they are obviously indifferent to American soldiers dying in Iraq? What’s more important, you proscuitto-Fascists…a local supermarket or the lives of our brave fighting men and women? On the plus side, SacRag still has the finest, award-winning zydeco coverage in the region.
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DB: Hilarious zydeco joke! Major kneeslapper. Even better than the last joke, where you said zydeco. Keep it up, man.
What you’re saying would only apply if I had made a generalization about all foodies. I didn’t use the word foodies, and I didn’t make any generalizations.
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On the subject of people losing their homes to foreclosure, wouldn’t it make more sense for the feds to bail out the individuals facing foreclosure than using the same amount of funds to bail out failing banks? That way, not only do the banks get the cash to remain solvent (since they became insolvent because of too many foreclosures,) but the people who would have lost their homes don’t lose their homes. Either way, the taxpayer’s paying the bill, right? But if we help those facing foreclosure, we reduce a lot of misery while still propping up the banks.
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if u hate dogs then u can go to hell, doghaters!
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I’ve been going to Corti Bros since I was a kid. My grandparents used to take us there for sandwiches and root beer. I like the store, the location, the people who work there. I like the smell too. I’ll miss that place. Cool DMZ…not so cool.
I hope the landlord of the property doesn’t decide to put a landfill in once Good Eats bombs.
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McG: Again, I think you should then be peeved at Corti’s for not locking down that location. It makes it seem like being an East Sac institution wasn’t as important to them as it was to its customers.
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DMZ or that that Corti tried to lock it down but couldn’t because the owner was unreasonable, greedy, etc.
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Just wait until the next time I say zydeco. It’s all going to come together at that point.
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Zen: You mean the greedy unreasonable owner who was taking 60 cents on the dollar for rent and kept the month to month agreement going for 2 decades?
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“unreasonable” is accurate, for refusing to change to a lease from a month-to-month. don’t know exactly about greedy – lazy seems more like it, as there are/were problems with the building (leaks, etc.) that the owner didn’t fix. it’s a standard low-rent situation, like my apartment: month-to-month, lots of problems, and a landlord who would rather get less money & not bother with fixing things. and it’s a mutual choice, as i couldn’t afford higher rent anyhow. maybe Corti could have afforded higher rent, but chose to stay with what was working. inertia is a powerful force.
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Is there evidence that the owner refused to change the lease? I think that’s what everybody probably assumes, but I think it’s more likely to assume it was a mutually beneficial situation that the owners just finally decided to change.
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Even if compromises were made, such as a tenant accepting property defects in exchange for a landlord accepting discounted rent, it doesn’t make either party evil or anything. It just means they had a bargain they could live with. When one party no longer found the bargain beneficial it was terminated. I don’t see anything controversial about that. Maybe a strip bar with a deli case will go in there though, that would be controversial. And gross.
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Heckasac: Is the report in today’s Bee–that Corti offered to sell his business rather than move it, after he lost his lease, and was rejected–the rumor you had heard? Because that makes my point and more! His offer included both selling his local business, and taking a million bucks for his services as a wine expert.
My wife suggests Corti open a new wine-only business called Sour Grapes…
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There are a lot of things we don’t know about this situation, but some of the things we do know are that Corti was never given an opportunity to counter the Good Eats offer. We know that Teel was looking for places to build his Good Eats project, and that he was looking for multiple locations. We also know that by offering to double the lease (the terms of this lease is unknown beyond the 24k/mo price) they would eliminate a competitor and have potential a built in customer base. We know that Teel attempted a “mending fences” offer to Corti, after they had a signed lease with the owners of the property, and that was rejected, but we don’t know the details. It may have been a completely insulting or inadequate offer, but we do know that The tone of bee article indicates that Teel felt the Corti counter offer was way out of line.
Could Corti have signed a longer lease? We don’t know, it takes two parties to sign a lease. Its my best guess that the landowner was given a sweet deal by Teel that the owner could not turn down, and that successfully eliminated potential competition to his new pet project. I think I it was done fast and on the sly with the landowner. I think the Corti was not brought into the process or brought in after the fact was because it might have ruined the sweet deal the landlord had on the table with Teel. I think Teel should realize that its bad for business to piss off a community when creating a new venture. I think its bad for Sacramento that a local business has been forced out of its community simply for the persuit of the mighty dollar with no evaluation of its impact on the community as a whole.
People have complained that Corti didn’t do much to improve the location, but we don’t know how much leeway they had to make improvements to the property, and I can’t blame them for not wanting to much capital into a location they could lose the rights to in 30 days. The fact that the landowner didn’t make any improvements to the property shows that they were not interested in the property beyond what it took to keep their existing tennant happy, and Corti couldn’t really complain given what they were paying for rent…
Teel has had other business ventures fail miserably and has treated those projects with what looks to be outward indifference (prosper magazine). He presented a picture of being completely supportive of that project up to the day he shut it down with no notice to the employees. Completely his right, but its a pretty crappy way to treat people. I mention this because it goes to the character issue when trying to get at motives and what may have happened between Corti, Teel and the landowner….
I will not support the good eats project, I will not recommend to anyone I know the good eats stores. I will support Corti because its a local business that I like and has been a good community citizen and business for the east sac area, and I feel was treated poorly by back-room dealings by Teel and the landlord.
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Since Corti will never be able to top the location at the Arden Food Circus, I think it’s better he call it a day.
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cnc: Hi, thanks for the visit. If we’re just going with what we know, then we have to cross out most of your argument. You admit that it is based on your “best guess” that there was a shady back-room deal. You don’t know that.
We do know one other thing, which is that when Corti did have the opportunity to offer something, he offered to SELL the business. You simply can’t make the argument that Corti’s has been “forced out” of that location knowing that. I’m not saying selling your business is not being a good community citizen, I just don’t get the blind devotion on the basis of Corti’s status as a local icon if much of what is causing this situation is easily perceived as Corti’s lack of commitment to the area.
At this point if he reopens at a new location, won’t that appear to be Plan B because cashing in didn’t work? It’s making me think of…
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I don’t have blind devotion to Corti, but I do base my position on the way they have interacted with the community over the years, and that they have been a solid member of the community for over 20 years.
I think with the unanswered questions you have to ask why.
Why wasn’t Corti brought into the negotiations before they were completed? Wouldn’t that have been in the best interest in the landowner to get the best possible deal? A reasonable conclusion is that Teel didn’t want Corti involved, and the only leverage he has with regards to that issue is to revoke is offer. So that would explain why Corti didn’t hear about the negotiations until after the deal was completed.
Doesn’t it strike you as strange that the details of Teel’s offer to Corti were not revealed, but the details of Corti’s offer was? It strikes me that it was revealed to paint Corti as someone willing to sell out the community for the right price, And while Teel saw that as being to much to spend to “mend fences” it allowed him to paint Corti is a less positive light. A reasonable conclusion was that neither offer by Teel or Corti were made as serious offers…
Don’t you find it curious that details of Teel’s offer to the landlord were not revealed beyond the new monthly price. A reasonable conclusion is that Teel offered to make capital improvements on the property. Something that the owner was unwilling to do for Corti as wittnessed by the lack of any capital improvements by the owner over the last 20 years.
Isn’t it convenient that by spending 24k plus potential capital improvements that Teel manages to remove a competitor that was slated to take in 8 million dollars in revenue this year… 24k/mo over a couple of years plus capital improvements is a lot less than the 2 million it would have taken to appease Corti and it removes the compitition from the area he wanted to set up shop in…
Teel’s track record with business projects in the community have been suspect in the past. Corti’s has not.
So yeah I have a bias towards Corti as a fantastic local grocery that catered to my needs and provided great customer service and food to this community, and I am not inclined to support a project that removes them from my community.
Teel may have a good idea, but he didn’t have to build it at Corti’s expense. He could have chosen to just use the Andiamo location. He chose to persue aggressive capitalistic tactics to achieve his goals. Perfectly in his right to do so. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And I don’t think anything he will be selling will be able to wash away that bad taste.
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cnc: Teel did make an offer to Corti to have him involved in the new business: http://www.sacbee.com/103/story/1127916.html
I think you’re mostly concerned with the Teel angle, and honestly I haven’t given much thought to that side of the equation. I’m merely feeling contrarian on seeing Corti as a victim here. Teel’s project did not “remove them from the community” any more than Corti’s being OK with having a month to month lease for 20 years did. Remember, that means he could have left the landowner in the lurch with 30 days notice too. They were getting bottom barrel rent from a client who could have bolted with no notice. Maybe they turned down offers in the past 20 years, but you can’t really blame them for taking a hard deal for more money.
Also this doesn’t make a lick of sense:
“24k/mo over a couple of years plus capital improvements is a lot less than the 2 million it would have taken to appease Corti”
The $2 million offer was for Teel to BUY Corti out. Shouldn’t you be thanking Teel for turning that down, freeing up Corti to open up shop in a new location? Sure, Corti might have rebounded and opened a new venture. But it would not necessarily have been the same thing–after all, he would have then been on the payroll at Good Eats.
And hey, if Good Eats is good enough for Darrel Corti, shouldn’t it be good enough for you? 🙂
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As I said we don’t know the details of the offer beyond what the newspaper mentioned. Teel did make an offer to keep the Corti name and at the location, but beyond that we have no idea what it would have meant. We know that Corti countered that offer after he had lost his rental agreement and it seems to me to be more of a “FU” type of response to Teel’s initial “mending fences” offer than a serious counter. I am certainly glad neither offer was taken seriously by the other party as I don’t have much faith that Teel would kept Corti involved in anything more than name.
The deal that Teel made with the landlord was to double the current rent, and given the nature of the project “gormet specialty grocery” it probably includes capital improvements which Teel is most likely on the hook for since the landlord hadn’t made any improvements on the property in 20 years. I was suggesting that it was far cheaper for Teel to out bid Corti on the lease with what appears to be a back-room deal with the current landlord, make a some capital improvements, and be still well ahead financially and successfully removed Corti as local compitition to his project. It’s a great move from a purely financial perspective. A great financial/business move by Teel. But that’s not all there is to business, there is the issue of what impact that may have on the community. And that’s the part that Teel, the landowner, and apparently you don’t get.
I think many people would have been ok with a month to month lease at those rates. Sure Corti could have left at any time, but the point is they didn’t. They stayed there for 20 plus years. And that in part says something about their commitment to east sac. The only reason they are leaving now is because Teel forced the issue by signing a deal with the landlord. To me that is forced out.
I can understand wanting more money for your property, Im just not down with how the whole process came about. If there had been an open bid period where Corti had been allowed to make a counter to Teel’s offer, If there had been some community involvement in the decision, then I would been ok with how it turned out, But Corti wasn’t given that opportunity, and neither was the community and now Corti is forced to leave and probably leave east sac. And possibly close up shop all together, and that bothers me alot.
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Community involvement??? What is this, Davis?
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We’re definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this, cnc, as you’re probably not willing to accept my proposition that this whole deal does not boil down simply to “big money” Teel vs poor little old grocer Corti. And that is totally fine, I just hope some people might see it in a new light. As I said, I completely understand the love of Corti’s. The things you’re mentioning–public involvement, counter offers from a month-to-month tenant, etc.–are not usual business practices I don’t think, though I have no idea. Does sound kinda Davis-y to me too 🙂
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We will most likely have to agree to disagree on this. But local community involvement is done at every level from state and federal (EIR/EIS) to local communities (planning boards and community districts). It has nothing to do with Davis, it has everything to do with having a say in the quality of life you intend to have. If business are left to their own without any oversite you will find yourself with some pretty unpleasant situations. Its planning boards and communties that can and should dictate what businesses are appropriate for their area and what the appearances those businesses take. Why do you think the downtown of Davis, Santa Barbara, East Sac, Landpark look the way they do? Its because there are requirements placed on businesses. Why do you think Natamos and Elk Grove look the way they do? Because they cater to what business wants. Perhaps you wouldn’t mind places like east sac, landpark, and the like looking like Natamos, but I do. Go figure…
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If I had the choice, I would rather live in cnc’s community…a place where traditions and people matter. Hope Corti’s stays nearby…I love that place!
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I doubt any oversight board would have found this inappropriate. And again, Darrell Corti offered his services to Good Eats, so it can’t be all that bad.
More importantly, how does Alton Brown feel about this whole deal?
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I never said the idea was bad, I actually said I liked the good eats concept, I never said it was big money vs small corti, I said the way the deal came about was bad, it appears to be done in a way that guaranteed that Corti was out of the picture for Teel’s project or at least minimalized Coriti.
I never said that the planning board would have nixed the project. I was responding to your philosophy that communities should not be involved, and that only market forces should dictate what businesses should take place in a community.
I have responded to your comment about Corti making a counter to Teel, and you seem to think that since Corti made a counter offer to Teel that somehow makes every that happened before that ok. In my mind it doesn’t. At the time Corti made his counter offer, he had lost his lease. His options were and are limited. If he wanted to continue doing business in east sac at the current location he would have to strike a deal with Teel. Otherwise he would have to look elsewhere. Having to strike a deal with the devil doesn’t absolve the initial sin which set all these issues in motion to begin with, which you seem to want to do.
Alton Brown would agree with me =)
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littlecat8: You are welcome to visit my community anytime. However you must receive a pass at the front gate, and that pass must be worn at all times. My police force has been instructed to fire at will on any intruders not wearing the pass. I cannot stress enough the importance of wearing the pass prominently. Also do not bring any fruit from cnc’s community as my secret intelligence officers tell me it is poisoned.
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Alton Brown shops at Whole Foods. I rest my case.
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At times he does, but he also highly recommends shopping local markets and building good relationships with those businesses. If there was a Corti’s near where he does his show, I’m sure he would shop there…
Your case is flimsy… =P
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cnc: I never said communities should not be involved. I’m sure there was an opportunity for citizens to protest Good Eats’ licensing etc. I don’t think it is normal for there to be a process where citizens can nix a deal like this one because we don’t like the new tenant.
I don’t understand why Teel would have to seek a location for his store while guaranteeing that the current occupant of the location was “still in the picture.” And until I know otherwise, I do assume that everything that happened before Corti offered to sell his business was OK. What I am saying is that it speaks to his desire to stay in business as Corti Bros.
I hope you have applied for your gate pass.
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I never said he had to seek out this opportunity, but the article in the bee stated that his partner brought the location to his attention, and he acted on it. It was convenient that he was able to kill two birds with one stone. It made sense from a business standpoint to do it, and had this been a sporting event I would have stood up and applauded it as a brilliant tactical move. But its not and I see it as poor move in terms of establishing good will in the community.
At the time of the approval the project, the final locations for the Good Eats project included only the Andiamo site and 2 locations to be determined later. I doubt anyone would have not approved of the concept. Heck I was behind the project and was eagerly awaiting the Andiamo location opening until the deal that forced Corti out of its current location was disclosed.
I think that we should be able to nix deals, and we do it all the time. Peoplecommunities nix deals for liquor stores, gas stations, bars etc. because they have a negative impact on the community. I’m not saying that good eats is a bad idea or a negative impact on the community by its nature, but the way they went about implimenting the project does have a negative impact and had it been known ahead of time that the choice for east sac would be Corti or Good Eats, I’m guessing most would have chosen Corti. The project as it was originally laid would have been Corti and Good Eats… a very different scenario.
LOL I don’t even think I want a day pass to your community 😉
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Oh, the only kind of pass available is a day pass. You think I’d let you sleep there?
Anyway I’m sure we both understand public comment on business licenses and stuff, its merits and so forth. I get that I’m not going to make an impact in this matter on people who feel passionately about Cortis. Good talk!
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